#13 Aether Games | Jens Peeters - Building Fantasy Universe Through IP


Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Poolside with Polkastarter, where we come together to share some of the hottest, most exciting projects in the Web3 space. I think today's one is one of our favorites. We tend to say that certain episodes excite us a lot, but I think this one is gonna be really interesting for all of you that are either really interested in kind of Web3 gaming, but also if you're just a fan of, you know, really recognize, easy to recognizable IP, you know, from from past experiences, whether it's Harry Potter, or the stuff that Fortnite is doing nowadays, or whatever. So it's gonna be a lot of fun chatting with Jens, I'll let you introduce yourself. I don't like doing these intros. So chance, tell us a bit about yourself. And then we'll get going on ether games.


Thank you for the beautiful intro hyping myself up. Hey, everyone, my name is Jen's, and the founder and CEO of Aether Games. Next to this I'm also an Esports celebrity manager. And this is where I manage deals with a lot of companies such as MasterCard, Intel, AMD, Lenovo, Legion, many others. And I have a vast network in the League of Legends space, but a lot of players that currently they're not able to step into the crypto space yet, but I'm sure they will change soon when Riot Games changes their vision a little bit.


Cool. So now let's let's talk Aether Games. So CEO and founder of Aether Games, what does that mean? What is Aether Games or what are you guys trying to build? Tell me a bit more about that


Aether Games is a game development studio, publisher and next to this, we also work on our own animation show full CGI is just also Aether and this is to push forward the entire franchise if the games itself is a collaboration of multiple studios coming together, and this gives us a lot of expertise in both game development augmented reality, and most of all the CGI that we built.


Okay, short and crisp. So now I want to ask in terms of different games, what are you talking about? In this case for what kind of games are you guys working on? What are your plans? I know a lot, but I don't want to kind of give that away. So I'll let you lead on this one.


Yeah, so right now we're building Cards of Ethernity, which is going into beta by the end of this week. And then Gates of Ethernity. But in Gates of Ehternity, it's an auto battler quite optimistic if we say it's out by the end of 2023, because this requires a lot of development. The bigger picture here is basically that we build an IP, and we create all these models for future games to come as well. And with the with all the big communities, we will be organizing hackathons, in order to let other people build games using our assets. Right now both G of E and C of E are both strategy games. And that's just because we're focused on eSports. And strategy goes hand in hand with eSports.


Gotcha. So now, you know, you mentioned a bunch of games, obviously, you mentioned two different game titles. Let's talk about the one thing that connects both of them. Right? So the IP angle that you guys are taking a) Why did you choose that approach? And B, what does that approach mean? For me, as a gamer, as a consumer of you know, ether games in general,


we took this approach because me personally, I like the lore behind all the all of the things that you've seen with Blizzard is doing what Riot Games is doing right now. It just connects everything. And that's what we're doing as well, all these games are connected within the same universe. And the fact that you see a creature within one game, it also appears in the other game, whether it's as a card or something else is better than NPC could be something else. And this is what we push forward with the series itself also. So in Cards of Ethernity, for example, you do have a Ethernos, like baby creatures in that they also have in Gates of Ehternity but not every single creature is an asset usable in all games, because there has to be some balancing going on.


Gotcha. So now, on that topic of the different games, and the IP and things like that I know, IP is, you know, is a hot topic for a lot of people and a lot of brands claim that they're going to build really recognizable and you know, Legacy IP essentially, why do you think you actually have a chance? I guess maybe we can start by telling us a bit more about the team itself and who you guys are and what your backgrounds are and what have you built in the past.


So team, as I said, this collaboration people Sidious coming together, the most notable I would say is probably color more than almost any old people that worked in Unit image. And working in Unit bit unit image we worked on love death and robots to do episode snow in the desert and beyond the Aquila rift and those are one of the highest quality episodes in that space as well. Next to this considering we have a vast team, we've worked on over 500 different media projects. This includes little things like even artwork for horse so many sound horses, even currently doing it frequent as well. But I would say the most notable thing is basically as being connected within the film industry. We know people from Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, HBO, and now Paramount plus and Shoot and the Motion as well. So that's a big streaming service. And we know these people also. We do basically breakfast breakfast with them. That's like a normal thing to pitch everything that we're doing to see which streaming service is the best for us having these connections, we have an easier way of pushing everything that we're doing to to the public, basically, for global adoption, crypto is one thing, but it's a series itself, that's going to bring the majority of players to us.


I like that. I like that. So I mean, you mentioned a lot of different, you know, titles, love death robots and things like that, as well. And obviously, the the focus on trying to put out a series, whether it's on Netflix, or whatever you end up choosing, I want to ask again, in terms of the thought process behind that was not inspired by anything was the decision to go the CGI series using the same IP from the games, you know, as a result of something that you kind of, I'm really feeling you the answer. But I want to highlight that because I think it's really important to


point out where the market is headed right now. So we see a lot of games that are making series on the site. So you have League of Legends, they made our game. Our team has worked on Orkin as well, Riot Games knows exactly what they were doing. And now you see games like things of all not in China, which is literally almost the same as League of Legends, they're making the exact same show like are games getting hundreds of millions on that also, then there are many other shows that went into games the other way around. And we know that things like HBO, they just purchased the gaming studio because they want to step into the gaming market as well. Netflix pushed which, which did absolutely phenomenal. And they started a gaming studio of their own also, this basically means that everyone wants to step into the gaming slash entertainment space at the same time. And why not do it together at the same time. For us that being sets Yes, we do it together at the same time. But CGI takes a very long time constantly throwing things out way before the full season wanted to have effect. So we have a lot of time to accumulate that loyal following that really likes to have a lot we within the games.


Cool. So now let me go back a bit and highlight something that you mentioned early on. So you said obviously you worked with eSports and influencers and celebrities and things like that. And obviously the team has a lot of different backgrounds from different games. Why build Web3 game why build a tower games and Web3?


Because we saw a clear issue in the gaming space with crypto with basically all web based game not really much going on. Me coming from playing at first like things like Spyro Crash Bandicoot and later on RuneScape world Warcraft League of Legends, I see the space really growing especially the eSports space where people went to rolls like them years ago for like $500. Now that multimillionaires, the entire space is growing and encrypted for some reason was going back. I have a lot of connections, which made me build this studio quite fast from nothing to where we are right now. And we want to push forward the entire crypto space with games that I don't want to say AAA but we want to show people what actual AAA quality looks like because a lot of people in the crypto space right now they're saying AAA this and that when realistically, it's just it's not true. If you're doing a 5 million raised and you'd not self funded by even a dime at all, it's not going to be AAA at all AAA requires at least 80 million budget in development if you know exactly what you're doing and no money is wasted.


Cool. Okay, I like that. I like that thought process. So now let me you know you touched on it really quickly. But I want to break it down to every single person that's listening in so right now if I was to, let's say buy an NFT or you know earn an NFT or when an NFT in cars of eternity right the first game that's gonna come out how does that hold up and the rest of the stuff that you guys are doing, you know, as that same character now redeemable in the next game does not connect in any way or they like detached from one another but it's the same you know, storyline and law etc. So just like talk to me as if I have no idea about what you're trying to build I guess.


So we have different kinds of entities right now we have like the god Genesis entities, these are creatures, but they actually have course attached to them, we will assume that people split them if you have the NFT you can just split it you will have the creature and the court now if you have the creature depending on which one it is it can also be a pet with regard to the serenity because you have like your little eternal your pet your adventure it and then your deck of cards. If it's a card that you have, that's only forgotten eternity. However, if you disenchant we have a crafting system folding system depending which game you play, if you disenchant the car to get like the material for it, that material is actually usable in basically 30 So not every single NFT is on every single game that literally doesn't work for them, like game design and to balance everything. But we have deflationary NFT systems that allow cross game interaction.


Okay, I think that simplifies it. Fair enough. Fair enough. So now, I want to maybe poke an ask when it comes to your trailer, which I think I'll try to pin up on the sort of space when it comes to the trailer and the quality that we saw in kind of that snippets is that what we can expect from the CGI is series is that what we can expect from the game like what is that a representation


is both from though for the series, the quality is too low for the game, the quality is too high. So the poly in that show like in the little in the series that you saw, in the thesis that you saw, it's way too high for any sort of game. Even if you have the best PC in the world, you will not be able to run it be scaled down, for example, to get to the third is going to be between 30,007 1000 triangles. And that's already quite a lot. As for the teaser those creatures, all of them get at a minimum of 6 million poly it's night and day difference that being set for the series itself that we're creating right now it's all added, add another level, the production value that the 1 million per minute, but we do everything in house, we don't outsource anything. Even yesterday, we did the facial motion capture in the in our office in Paris, and we're using the same technology as multiple choosing, I will actually push some pictures to that later on or socials. So you can see what I'm talking about.


Nice. I was gonna say so now I mean, we keep talking about how nice it is to have the same IP and it's recognizable and the same law, etc, etc. I want to ask maybe a different question. So has there been any challenges with kind of working with the same common law and the same IP across the different games? Did you face any kind of hurdles because of the decision you made? Or what does that kind of look like for you?


Along the way, I would say the biggest challenge would be by using the same SD multiple games, but keeping their unique traits and sticking to their own backgrounds. Just because we have a vast amount of assets available doesn't mean you can just pick this certain character could be like an ice cream with ice magic and put her in a setting that doesn't fit her background at all. We need to make sure every assets that we create, and we put in a certain setting that has to be it has to be coherent with all the other games and check out to the story as well.


Nice. Okay, cool. My next question, I don't know if you are ready to talk about this one. But it's definitely an interesting piece that I want to touch on the underlying tech that you guys are working on with. Alexa, are you are you ready to hear a bit of that,


we should get him here as well. But simply put, we have our own technical arm as well, that covers every single EVM compatible chain. We have through multi chain cross chain bridging where we don't even pack tokens. It's literally where you have the token of every team at the exact same time. But it's it really requires us to show some very technical advanced people in the backend how exactly it works. But yeah, we will partner up for that with a lot of people, they will start using the technology and then it will start getting some traction right now. You give a rather big sneak peek.


Yeah, so I said I don't know if you're ready. But I'd like to


actually pivoted. So I'm happy to have a personal call with you to show you.


Fair enough? Because let me let me come back to the games in a second. So my next question is a bit, I guess more community focused, right? So obviously, you're building something super ambitious, you're trying to, you know, build this whole, like World law, etc, etc. A, how's the community receiving all the efforts that you're kind of putting behind these games? And obviously, you know, we're in such a fast paced world where new games are coming out every single day and attention is very, you know, scarce. So I'm curious to hear more about kind of how you've managed to hold on to the community or build that community from the get go, and then I'll tell you what B is. But once you answer this question,


yeah, I would say we actually lost a lot of the community because we've been at it for about 10 months. Now we have initial growth, because we have friends on Facebook with very big channels, they pushed our CGI forwards. And that gave us like initial growth. But because we don't want to rush anything too soon, we don't want to release a game filled with crazy amount of bugs for the public to use, just to use the NF T's and all that stuff. It's hard to keep direction. However, considering course, eternity is going into close beta, I mean that you will always find bugs in the beta like that. People can start theorycrafting which deck which cards are going to be strong we can we can do all the balance testing behind it, we can have a lot more engagement on the discord server. Right now. We're doing daily competitions, that Jack is managing together with Andrew, but we will have a lot more going on real soon.


Nice, nice. I mean, it's thanks for being transparent. Obviously, it's always hard, especially with building something so ambitious. That takes a lot of time. Obviously, people are always hopping back and forth between the scores. But it's good to see I think you guys do a bunch of like, events and activities and movie nights and things like that. So it's always really interesting to see communities grow. I guess organically is the word I'm looking for here. Now let me ask you something tricky, because you said personal experience, right. So how are you planning? Or are you even planning on kind of using the experience you have with eSports and celebrities and things like that into ether games?


Yes. So I have my own network of players as well. So a lot of people on Twitch def Twitter, YouTube, all of that stuff. But everyone is focused on Twitch. So one of our campaigns that we do is hiring a lot of people are basically working with a lot of people from Twitch all playing siwi at the same time pushing forward the game. At the top of Twitch, not obviously higher than League of Legends CSGO valent. Not that but it's pretty high up so it gets some organic traction. Next to this, we have our own network of basically block websites and all that stuff. We work together with them also, when they push us to the entire audience. That is all web two. But it's our job to basically convert people from web two to Web3, but combining to do is that the two is definitely very handy for me as well. I know the pricing of all the players in web two also. So basically, it's a whole different thing cabling with pretty


nice. Okay, so now, let me ask you another tricky question. What do you think since you're building cards of uncertainty, obviously, as the first game, I'll ask about the second in a minute. But what do you think of the current state of card games and Web3,


I think the ones that are out are doing these. Basically two, like splinterlands got to change, I feel like both of them lacking issues. One of them is just like, it's very stylized, it's very simple. I like to have a little bit more fancy graphics and all that stuff, then Gholson change has it but it's pretty difficult barrier for entry. And this is where we both want to improve on as well. We have the graphics that people want to see we make the game glad that easy, but still, there is a lot of stuff you can do. Also, if you're quite familiar with the game, like if I would play against you right now I played quite a bit already. I will win every single time. Just because I know which parts I can utilize the most.


I mean, I'm also not the best card game publisher. On the auto battler side, I guess we have a bit of eternity. What's your take on kind of that side of the equation


with auto battlers? I don't see any auto battle right now in the crypto space is actually worth mentioning. Iluvien is notable, but they are more open and more PG automatic. That is just their battle system. They have a PVE mode as well. But their focus is like the AMA more PG, it's a little bit bigger than just an altar battle for us, the biggest altar battle that is always going to be TFT. But TFT is literally like a mythical game where you basically log in play, boom, you're in the game immediately and you're good to go. With us it's a little bit more strategy where you're building a deck beforehand, all those keys should get cycled in, but the current set that you're in, and on top of that, you have plotline glyphs also, which meaning like power ups that you can purchase within that session also. But yeah, as for auto Batlas, every single season, or for DFT, at least Patrum Setsuna, there has been a lot of growth. And the market is looking towards games like that. Also, it doesn't have much competition right now. But if you make something that is simple, like nothing unique, it's not going to work. That's what


makes sense. So now let me jump in an extra step and say you've got the IP you're gonna do you know, these two games, you're gonna do the, you know, the series. What's next? Do we see your characters and the lore in an MMO RPG? Do we see like, what do you think how does this map out in the next five


years, I would love to make an MMO RPG. But realistically, if you want to do try to take some minimum of six years to build something like that, you can make like a smaller version. But again, for the crypto space, it takes a very, very long time. Because they want to see things a lot faster. What we will be doing with every community that we're partnered with is basically hackathons, we allow people to use our assets to them pass the bill of develop a game doesn't matter if they want to use Unity or Unreal Engine, that's fine. We can support both in that. And then we'll let the Dow decide which game that they want to see more developed. And whichever community or couple of guys made that specific game, we would then work together with them to build something new. What that would be, I can't really say I wish it wasn't an award, peachy. But that's, that's a long term investment.


That's fair, that's fair. I'm just throwing it as an example. Maybe it's a fighting game when I was like I'm sitting in law going head to head with the pink. Yeah, there was


some hacking slash that would actually be cool and doesn't take much time either, because we can duplicate a little stuff.


My next question is a bit more broad, the more generic So you touched on both genres, but I wanted to kind of get your take on the current state of the space. Not a specific niche topic within it. But more. So what do you think about the current state of the space where we've, you know, where we came from, and where we're going? Because I think a lot of change obviously, since the first time we spoke many months ago to now and I wanted to kind of get your take on what do you think is going on? And where do you think we're headed next?


I think we're heading into the right direction. Like first we spoke a lot of the games that are basically just buying an asset when I'm watching a board fill up like a loading screen and maybe you win maybe you don't. Now games that a little bit more interactive. We see a lot of like small indie type of games. Still, like massive bases that isn't required for all of this stuff has, you know, we see a lot of people buying stuff from the Unity Asset Store, which is very, very sad to see. And it's going to end up in legal issues as well, because you're not allowed to sell those as NF T's. But anyways, in terms of quality, we are moving forward, we just need to step away from all these web web based games. But that means you need to have some, something else to connect your wallet within the desktop application. But I'm sure you're familiar with some good partner of yours that can help


with it. isn't sure Yeah. That's interesting. You brought this up? Because you mentioned like going away from web games into, you know, stuff that maybe needs more plugins and things like that. So you guys are planning a launcher, aren't you for the game. So that's easier to update. And it's easier to kind of, you know, yeah, moving houses and things like that.


Yeah, right now, the launcher that you literally have as well that's used to launch the course of eternity is going to be a little bit bigger than that, where you can launch any game within our universe. So it's going to be gotta be doing just curious between guards and gates, that is probably going to be some smaller game also that we released. And even the AR app, also something we can put on there.


Nice. That's interesting. So in terms of the launcher itself, I'm asking this, because I've been talking about this, you know, all week on different spaces. And Amy's the onboarding process, right? That's a key thing, obviously, especially since you're targeting web to gamers, what does that look like for you? Or at least how do you envision the onboarding process not just for one game, not just for cards of eternity, but you know, every other game that you end up working on? Whether it's guess what they're gonna do or anything else? Down the line?


The onboarding process for our games itself? And for other people that are games,


yours, yours? Not in general? Now, I'm going back to you and kind of because you know, you mentioned we're going in the right direction. So now I want to see how are you going to make this work?


For the launch itself, it's simply any game that is within our universe, we put it on the launcher, any other game that wants to be on that launch, it is basically something that we have a stake in. But that being said, we will be on many other people that launch it as well. It's, it's like a strategic type of thing.


Cool. And do I need a wallet? Do I need to know what Kryptos do I need? No,


no, you don't. But we will put some scarcity in that as well, where if, before the end of the season, you can basically redeem all the crypto rewards that you had. And now we will give you a seamless experience on how to create a wallet to simply click Done. You got all the assets. But you can play web to complete it.


So basically, what you're saying is, I don't need to understand crypto until it's time to understand crypto.


Yeah, basically, you can play web two completely prime you can play back to you have a lot of free courses, well, you can play free to play. If you want to have to do ownership of your assets and all that stuff. That's when you need to step into the bug free space. But again, we make it quite easy. With the multi chain that we provide all wallets are the same. And all chains have the same address. If you send from one chain to another without realizing what's what, you still have your tokens. It's a whole lot different than when I entered the space, some money and poof, it's gone. Because oops, wrong chain.


Yeah, I mean, it's also just the fact that a lot of games had that, you know, NFT gatekeeping mechanism where you had to buy NF T's otherwise, you couldn't even try the game, I think that was a bit of


almost a game episode for the AAA game, I would actually understand this. But then you don't need to put it above like 70 or $80, that would be a lot lower than buying an MFT. That's like a couple of $100 just to play it. And then it's like some indie game that is, you know, my thoughts on that. It's,


I mean, it's not even that it's like, it's funny, because typically, traditionally, if you're buying a console game on the PlayStation Store, it's like $50, maybe at a deluxe edition. And then you see a lot of NF T's to even give you access to the game or like 100 plus. So yeah, I agree that we're moving in the right direction, because we're seeing less and less of that. And we're seeing more and more like free to play games. Yeah,


these prices are basically depending on the production value that went into it or like a big title, something like Mario Party or something that doesn't really cost too much to make, but it's very popular. So therefore it's a higher price and then any sort of triple A game. It has a high price because the marketing and development price was simply very, very high crypto scandal leaching of the fact that it's just new and they they get the ability to ask a lot, but that should go away soon.


Hopefully, amen. Amen. So now let me move a bit to partnerships and then we'll we'll start kind of nearing the end of the you know, the conversation and we'll wrap things up so in terms of I guess, what can communities do with ether games in the sense of you know, if we're a guild if we're a gaming community if we're a partner that's super invested in the space and want to you know, get some players then like, what have you guys put in place for partnerships like that.


For gilts we have a renting system but like the usual guilts I wouldn't really focus on those if you look if you compare it to the guilt like something like methods for example, I will work with those guys only recruit like the better players in PvE at least to join the guild to generate so they can be world first we have a system politically, we have a pool of rewards for people for guilt as well, whichever is the highest rate of guilt. So those people actually have to perform at a higher level. That being sets, every single player itself at the end of the season gets rewarded based on their rank. So if you lend guards, those players and like guilties invest in certain players that rank up, they can get rewarded from that. But if it's literally just play and earn, without actually being continuously giving back better than higher elo, that's, that's not really going to work. But I don't think system is in place for those people.


So I mean, I guess it's safe to say that you're focusing more on kind of the competitive players the ease, yeah, yeah, growth was rather than, okay, you do


get awards for playing, like, consistently, you get dailies, weeklies, all of that stuff, but that's not going to make you like, you know, going to be able to buy a new phone and all that stuff with it, you do get NSPS and acids that you can sell, you can speculate on them, you can craft them into something new, you could monetize that. But it's, that's not really our focus, we give you these assets to craft with them, or to trade them with other players to build your own deck like that. But what you do with them is up to you through ownership.


Gotcha. Makes sense. So now back to this, I mean, eSports and the conversations we had and being a competitive player, like how are you planning to, I guess, reward these players as part of, you know, your your token, you know, in game economy, or tokenomics, and so on, are you planning to do a sponsored tournaments, that's something we're seeing a lot now with different games, we're looking at like a, you know, a partner to kind of just sponsor the tournament, prize pool for a week or whatever. And that basically, is how you fund the prizes. How does that play out for you guys? Is it more, you know, in economy decision, or is it something else?


Yeah, is the sponsor tournaments is one thing. But basically, what you shoot for this, like something bigger, let's say Twitch, if you have a licensing deal, where they host like the bigger tournaments, the efficiently licensed tournaments, and they only get to stream it on their platform. They pay you for that. And this money basically goes back to the players playing in those tournaments. That makes a lot of sense to us. And then your sponsor, tournaments, all of that we can do this also. But he will be noted that it's going to be a lot of like an official tournaments with the official ones basically will have extra rewards that we provide to people as well. And this is nothing new, like Riot Games has been doing it for a very long time. I remember 10 years ago, going to some competition and winning like your dry skin. At that time is some great points when it's good, because it's an official tournament that people see that you play some little official tournaments as well. However, smaller, bigger, maybe.


Gotcha, gotcha. Okay. I think that makes perfect sense. So now in terms of again, let me go back to the partnership. So let's say I'm a competitive eSports type, focus guild, let's call us you know, PG, let's call this x, Borg, whatever you wanna call it. What can I do? Can I get a banner? Can I get a special card? Can I get a unique color? Like what? What how far I guess in terms of customization or in terms of personalization, can you go for partners.


In terms of customization, we can give a band that we can give them I can we can give a special type of emotes. And then by the end of the season, having like a unique Richard for yourself, because there is only going to be one guilt per season. That's like the number one, we can craft something truly unique as well together with that guilt. And that creature would then be added into the lore as a court and integrates with unity and any other game to come as well. And this is some big community, that type of thing that guild can do as well, Medic can really give us some rough concepts. We will illustrate it we will let the community review it. If it's a then basically craft in 3d. And you will see it's how it's like in the highest quality you can imagine.


Nice, thanks a lot of exciting stuff, man. So let me ask you one last question, I guess. And then we'll wrap things up here. As we near half of the hour, I think yeah, there you go. So in terms of the partnership with focus starter, what are you let me I don't like hearing people tell us, let me ask you, in a specific manner. So what are you looking for in this partnership? And why did you decide to go ahead? As in what can we do for you? Let me let me phrase it that way. Because usually people are like, Oh, my God bookstore is amazing, because it's like, I don't like the sound of that. So I guess, for everyone to understand why he decided to go ahead with the partnership and what you're looking for in the partnership. Maybe let's shed some light on that. And then I think I'll, I'll give you a few final words of encouragement, but I don't know if I should wrap things up.


Well, basically, at first it will basically be a strategic partnership, right? The poker slots are one of the biggest launch paths also in the main like fast growing guild but that being said, I've known you guys for like, I think 1010 months almost now and became a little bit more than that. I want to say no homo, but it's like it's friendship. You are in my inner circle as well. You connect with all the people that they connect to. Your Podcast author is extremely hands on more than any other launch but I've worked with Yeah, He's actually proposed to me I'm doing as well. So first of all, we focus.


Would you look at that all grown doing his first ama with some focus? I think you did well, and this is this was, I liked the fact that your answers are very direct and straightforward. Usually we, you know, we have a lot of conversations and we don't want other spaces. And it goes on and on and on. But only because people are expanding on the same point, you know, I think with you guys, since the get go, like you said, 10 months ago, or whatever, we always kind of could tell what the angle was and what you were trying to do. And I think it just, it grew from there. When we first spoke, I think it was just a tiny piece of the equation that you now have. So it's really exciting. I think it's important to shed light on on the stuff you mentioned, which is, you know, the quality of the games, what it looks like to actually have a triple A game, or at least again, it looks like it's triple A, obviously, the eSports component, the competitive play, etc, etc. So it's really, you know, it's refreshing. And I think for anyone that hasn't checked out either games, I'd highly suggest that you check out the website, go to the discord, look at their Twitter, I think John's tends to kind of undersell himself. I think if you look at the pitch deck and the logos of kind of the brands these guys have worked on, you'll be very pleasantly surprised. He likes to only talk about, you know, the very, very best, but the stuff he doesn't mention is still pretty, pretty good. So with that, I'll let you wrap things up. I like letting the guests do the outro. So why don't you kind of, you know, finish things up and give us a nice little goodbye. And I'll make you the official outro of the show.


What was it Spotify, Apple podcasts? Anybody else?


Yeah, just just say everywhere else, because we're everywhere else. So like, if they missed it, they could just listen to the recording on all those platforms.


Right? Oh, much and focus on the theme. Thank you so much for having us. We're on ether games.io. Also gob.gg C reader, GG. And we'll have a lot more different websites. You can also find us on Twitter. And again, thank you for my very first AMA. You can listen to this podcast on Spotify, Apple podcasts and everything else. Everywhere else.


Nice. I like that see short and crisp. Okay, I think this is the outro. Let's just record this clip and keep using it moving forward. So I have to


you can you can do it.


Not that I like like thank you so much for joining us. I really appreciate it. I think this is just the start. We'll definitely be hearing from you again. A lot more often as well. I think we'll do a lot of fun Community Game Night stuff. And once the game is actually ready. I think it'd be really interesting to kind of play it on Twitch, maybe we'll we'll go head to head or maybe I'll put you


up. Yeah, we can do that this weekend. Yeah, there


you go. So we'll we'll probably stream it on Twitch and let people kind of get a taste of all the high quality stuff that you've been talking about. I think it's always nice to get that actual visual representation. But anyways, just thank you so much. It's been, you know, a lot of fun talking. This might be the maybe like 70 of time we have a chat. So looking forward to the 71st Sounds good. Thanks, everyone for tuning in. Enjoy the rest of your day. Thank you